Re: Election Review Committee meetings to come...

[Ralph Shnelvar <ralphs@xxxxxxxxx>]

Peter:

You still have not explained why the presense of any person or group would
make any difference at all.

Ralph Shnelvar

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:57:26 -0700, you wrote:

>Ralph,  et al...
>
>I am going to give you a very short answer to your questions below about
>the usefulness of the ERC work that has been going on...
>
>Neal and/or  Joe may care to add more...
>
>I believe that there is a better than 50-50 chance the ERC will recommend
>that Boulder County dump,  repeat dump, the Hart Intecivic system that
>the County bought.
>
>This ERC group is not a rubber stamp for anyone...
>
>You should especially attend the meeting this Friday, 18 March.
>
>I has been discovered there were problems in the 'PS' file...  see email
>below from a member of the ERC group, which may be why Eagle Direct had
>the printing problems they had, through no fault of their own...
>
>Bye,  Peter Richards
>
>
> I think maybe we found the problem.  It was in the PS file.  Having the
>file reviewed by a PS person would more than likely find the problem.
>
>Tom Davidson P.E.
>
>
>On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:56:27 -0700 Ralph Shnelvar <ralphs@xxxxxxxxx>
>writes:
>> Dear Peter:
>> 
>> It is sometimes difficult to express emotional tone in an eMail so 
>> please
>> understand that the following is being written in a friendly way and 
>> that my
>> questions to you are not being written sarcastically or 
>> rhetorically.
>> 
>> I am asking for your input to explain to me what you think will be
>> accomplished by either Evan or me showing up to an ERC meeting.  Is 
>> it just
>> to have two more bodies show up and display their disgust with the 
>> voting
>> process?
>> 
>> From my perspective, the purpose of the committee is to
>>         Fix the machines
>> 
>> Evan and my agenda is to have hand counted paper ballots.  Al's 
>> agenda is to
>> make sure that the electoral process is open, fair, and accurate.  I 
>> don't
>> know if he supports hand counted paper ballots but I suspect that he 
>> would
>> support hand counted paper ballots if there were the proper 
>> controls.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps a little background will help explain where I'm coming 
>> from.
>> 
>> As people on this list may or may not know, both Evan and I are 
>> politically
>> active.  What may be surprising is that Evan and I are friends and 
>> that I
>> deeply respect (and agree with!) the vast majority of his political
>> positions.
>> 
>> Both Evan and I are spread very thin fighting a multitude of 
>> political
>> battles.  Whether it is wise to be spread so thin is an open 
>> question but,
>> at least for me, being able to hook people up so that things get
>> accomplished is deeply satisfying.
>> 
>> For instance, about a week ago I worked with my friends (both 
>> political and
>> otherwise), Thomas and Larissa Lawrence, to get them on local TV 
>> news.
>> Perhaps you remember them?  They were the people who successfully 
>> managed to
>> get their medical marijuana back from the Denver police.  It made 
>> front page
>> news.
>> 
>> "Working" the press took me about 8 hours.  It meant taking the day 
>> off of
>> work and driving to the event and ...
>> 
>> 
>> Peter, I have no idea if the medical marijuana issue is a hot button 
>> for
>> you.  Nonetheless, I hope you understand that there are only so many 
>> hours
>> that I can devote to these issues.  I do, in fact, have a job.  I'm 
>> trying
>> to sell my house.  I'm picking up a bridge loan to purchase yet 
>> another
>> house so that I have a place to move my family into when I sell this 
>> house.
>> I have to help my kids with their homework.  I've got a lot of balls 
>> in the
>> air.
>> 
>> So, Peter, (and again, this is being written in a friendly way), do 
>> you
>> think that it is worth my time to attend this ERC meeting?  Let me 
>> put it
>> this way: If you were my boss and you saw all the things (both 
>> personal and
>> civic) that I was doing, would you tell me, "Ralph, attend the ERC
>> meeting."?
>> 
>> I ask you this, Peter, because I may not know how important the ERC 
>> meeting
>> is.  I may be missing something.
>> 
>> Yes, the press is covering it.  But I can tell you with absolute 
>> certainty
>> that this coverage is making no impact on the citizenry's 
>> consciousness.  I
>> know because I ask people.  You want the pulse of Boulder?  Talk to 
>> a random
>> barber and a hairdresser.
>> 
>> My prejudice is that the ERC is a total waste of time for all the
>> participants.  If you feel differently, please explain why and then 
>> I will
>> make up my mind whether to take the time to attend this Friday.
>> 
>> I am open to having my mind changed.
>> 
>> Ralph Shnelvar
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:51:23 -0700, you wrote:
>> 
>> >To:  Evan Ravitz
>> >        Ralph Shnelvar
>> >
>> >From:  Peter Richards
>> >
>> >Date: Monday, 14 March 2005,     20:40
>> >
>> >Re:  Boulder County Election Review Committee
>> >
>> >It would be nice if either of you would come to an Election Review
>> >Committee meeting.
>> >
>> >In my memory, neither of you has attended one meeting...
>> >
>> >The next three meetings are as follows:
>> >
>> >Fri. 18  March  2005,   13:00  to 17:00
>> >
>> >Fri. 25 March 2005,   13:00 to 17:00
>> >
>> >Fri. 1 April 2005,  13:00 to 17:00
>> >
>> >All meetings are at the 33rd St. Election headquarters, just north 
>> of the
>> >RTD garage, and across the street from the Boulder Police Dept.  
>> They
>> >meet in the Charlotte Houston room, on the north side of the 
>> building, on
>> >the ground floor.
>> >
>> >The last meeting for any public comment is the 1 April meeting !!
>> >
>> >Luckily, for the citizens of Boulder County, all three newspapers 
>> have
>> >been at every meeting.   The Daily Camera,  Colorado Daily and 
>> Longmont
>> >Times Call...
>> >
>> >I will be looking for you...  Bye,  Peter Richards
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:42:28 -0700 (MST) Evan Daniel Ravitz
>> ><evan@xxxxxxxx> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> I think something like half of your 65% "clueless" are that way
>> >> because they "despair" of getting thru the spin and hype at the
>> >> truth with the time, energy etc they have.
>> >> 
>> >> For example, they know it's not completely a joke when ERC chair
>> >> Richard Lyons said they might just put their cover on the
>> >> Republican's report on the election, as reported in the CO Daily
>> >> today.
>> >> 
>> >> It's unlikely the ERC will go beyond its charge and insist on 
>> >> public
>> >> voting software to make vote counting public and transparent 
>> again.
>> >> They will do what the bureaucrats want and talk about 
>> rearranging
>> >> deck chairs.
>> >> 
>> >> But I will make the case for truly public vote counting at their
>> >> meeting soon.
>> >> 
>> >> Evan
>> >> 
>> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Ralph Shnelvar wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:34:12 -0700, you wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > [snip]
>> >> >
>> >> > >I think the real question to ask about the low turnout at 
>> these
>> >> > >meetings and in the election is "do people care less?" or "do 
>> 
>> >> people
>> >> > >feel more disenfranchised?"
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Certainly, a strong argument can be made that "people don't 
>> >> care,"
>> >> > >especially with a short term office like the City Council 
>> vacancy 
>> >> or an
>> >> > >exciting issue like the coordination of elections, but after 
>> >> what
>> >> > >happened in November, isn't it also possible that people 
>> aren't
>> >> > >participating because they don't feel confident in the overall 
>> 
>> >> process,
>> >> > >as much as they may not care?
>> >> > >
>> >> > >I know I've been as guilty as anyone in the past of adding to 
>> 
>> >> the
>> >> > >noise, but given how low-volume this list has become, I hope 
>> we 
>> >> can
>> >> > >focus on the signal.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Thanks to everyone for all your efforts to help us achieve 
>> >> trustworthy
>> >> > >elections in Boulder County!
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me give a try at this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Both the Libertarian and Green parties have noticed - as you 
>> have 
>> >> noticed -
>> >> > that people simply are not willing to participate in politics.
>> >> >
>> >> > The cause of this is varied.  I'll catalog my unscientific 
>> >> observations.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > (1) 65%: Clueless.  They are uninterested in politics and 
>> couldn't 
>> >> care less
>> >> > if the country was run by George Bush or Chinese Premier Wen 
>> >> Jiabao.
>> >> >
>> >> > (2) 15%.  The free rider problem:  "I'll let someone else take 
>> 
>> >> care of
>> >> > this."
>> >> >
>> >> > (2) 10%.  Despair. Nothing I could possibly do will help.
>> >> >
>> >> > (3) 5%. I think elections are honest.  What are you talking 
>> >> about?
>> >> >
>> >> > (4) 4%. Between the kids, working two jobs, and sleep, I wish I 
>> 
>> >> could help.
>> >> >
>> >> > (5) 0.5%: I'm involved politically but I can't devote any time 
>> to 
>> >> this.
>> >> >
>> >> > (6) 0.4%: I'm involved politically and I think that being able 
>> to 
>> >> rig the
>> >> > voting system is a very good thing. It means that my side has a 
>> 
>> >> chance of
>> >> > winning.
>> >> >
>> >> > (7) 0.1%: I'll support this movement with my time and effort.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > So how do we change things?  It's hard to do it without getting 
>> 
>> >> people riled
>> >> > up.
>> >> >
>> >> > Most of you already know my position on getting people riled 
>> up.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ralph Shnelvar
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Joe
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >On Mar 13, 2005, at 12:28 PM, Ralph Shnelvar wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> As usual, I completely agree with Al.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Indeed, as you wrote on March 9:
>> >> > >> - - - - -
>> >> > >> Mr. Shaffer was involved in the LATs; he's the LP party 
>> chair; 
>> >> and was
>> >> > >> a
>> >> > >> candidate for SD17. His reward: insults.
>> >> > >> - - - - -
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Why should I cooperate and/or testify when I already know 
>> what 
>> >> the
>> >> > >> results
>> >> > >> will be?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> As Joe, I hope, will confirm, I have been moderately active 
>> 
>> >> behind the
>> >> > >> scenes trying to make positive change.  I have met with Joe 
>> & 
>> >> Co. on
>> >> > >> several
>> >> > >> occasions.  I have met with Joe & Co. and Salas and Lewis to 
>> 
>> >> try to
>> >> > >> get hand
>> >> > >> co