Re: Election in Boulder County nullified on constitutional grounds?

["Delta" <delta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mary,

After you wade through all the crapola......here are the facts.
The ballot *does* have a unique mark on it......this is necessary for
several reasons, mostly just to keep track of *that* ballot......
But.....who the hell *voted* on that ballot???
I defy Ralph or Al or Joe or *anybody*........ to tell me how you connect
*any* one with *any* particular ballot......
Can't be done.
Once that ballot leaves your hand, there's no way to discern it from any
other ballot of that style.

There was a potential, if the County were using *stubs*......like they
normally do.........to track back to the voter.
*THIS* is what the Clerks office got a waiver from Donnetta Davidson
for.......NOT having stubs, so that the ballot CAN be anonymous.

So, as usual......Ralph and Al are pretty much spouting half truths and
twisted information.

I get pretty sick and tired of guys like Joe following them blindly .
Did Joe even *talk* to the Clerks office??????
Try to get another side to the story, instead of blindly believing whatever
Al said......????
Did Clay Evans?????
Apparently not.......;-(

If you're going to walk around with your nose up someone's bum......you
better be prepared to get shat upon.......;-)
Following Al will get you a load of Caca.......
How does threatening and intimidating a 5 foot tall female Clerk in Boulder
County over a problem with a STATE LAW do anything but diminish that
person??????
And Ralph and Joe condone this?????

I have *very* little use for people like that.......

So, Mary....
Feel free to ask any other questions you might have.
I'm glad to see that there are people out there doing their civic
duty....and then some.
Thanks.

Bo Shaffer
LPBC Chair


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Eberle" <m.eberle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ralphs@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <paul.tiger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Mcgrath, Bob___PI_Mkt"
<bob.mcgrath@xxxxxxxxxx>; "'LPBC Chairman'" <chairman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<AlKolwicz@xxxxxxxxx>; "Citizens for Verifiable Voting"
<cvv-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Carol Mehesy" <cmehesy@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
"Donna Plutschuck" <donna@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Monty Lambie" <mlambie@xxxxxxxxx>;
"Pete Klammer" <PKlammer@xxxxxxx>; "Peter Raich" <peter.raich@xxxxxxxx>;
"Tracy Abell" <TresCeeA@xxxxxxx>; "Tom Halicki" <thalicki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
"Nancy Jo Wurl" <nwurl@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Election in Boulder County nullified on constitutional grounds?


> Dear All,
>
> I am lurking in the background, trying to comprehend the voting issues
> facing us tomorrow and in November. Tomorrow I will be a
> first-time-ever election judge in a Boulder County precinct in the
> city of Boulder. In that capacity I was required to vote early (i.e.,
> last week). A ballot was printed out for me in particular as I went
> through the check-in process. I do not know whether that ballot can be
> attached to me at this point via the bar code, but I am uncomfortable
> with the whole idea of a ballot's being specially printed for a
> particular voter.
>
> On the other hand, tomorrow when a voter approaches me to receive a
> ballot, I am to give out a randomly chosen ballot from a stack of
> fifty blank (but no doubt bar coded) pre-prepared ballots. This
> approach seems quite acceptable to me.
>
> My question for all of you is, Are you concerned that the ballots to
> be voted during the regular voting tomorrow under the Hart system are
> not secret?
>
> Thank you for any insights you may offer.
>
> Mary Eberle
>
> Ralph Shnelvar wrote:
>
> > I know that Paul's reputation for accuracy and fact checking speaks for
> > itself.
> >
> > Mr. Tiger wrote that "[|>] The bar code on the sides of the ballots
identify
> > the ballot style, not the individual ballot. Ballot style is about what
> > issues a person can vote on in a particular geographical location. My
wife
> > and I would have the same ballot style in a general election, but
different
> > in a primary. We live in the same house, but we are members of different
> > parties. I get a Libertarian ballot, she gets a Democratic ballot. If we
> > were members of the same party the barcodes would be identical."
> >
> > Mr. Tiger then retracted the statement by claiming that he was
misinformed.
> >
> > PT: "Let me be clear that I was misinformed and now stand corrected: in
that
> > there is a barcode that does track the ballot itself with these new
ballots.
> > And I didn't learn this from this email from Joe."
> >
> > He then went on with a bunch of irrelevancies.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's what's relevant:
> >
> > Article VII Section 8 of the Colorado Constitution.
> > - - - -
> > Elections by ballot or voting machine. All elections by the people shall
be
> > by ballot, and in case paper ballots are required to be used, no ballots
> > shall be marked in any way whereby the ballot can be identified as the
> > ballot of the person casting it. "
> > - - - -
> >
> >
> > Here's the doubly embarrassing point:  (1) Boulder got a waiver from the
> > Secretary of State to use these ballots in this election.  (2) Who gave
the
> > Secretary of State the authority to overrule a Colorado constitutional
> > provision?
> >
> >
> >
> > Where'd I get my information?  Al Kolwicz, of course.
> >
> > I have known Al for several years and he gets his facts straight.
> >
> > Yes, reputation precedes both these men.
> >
> > Ralph Shnelvar
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S.  The following is my opinion (and I have not discussed this with Al
> > Kolwicz).
> >
> > I am not a lawyer but I'd make a bet that the loser (or winner) of any
> > election in this primary season would have a good shot at having this
> > election in Boulder County nullified on constitutional grounds.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:42:25 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I think that Al’s reputation speaks for itself. It hardly needs Mr.
Shaffer’
> >>s ‘tampering’ to sound far fetched. The daily camera – so well known for
> >>accuracy and information, is expert in areas of far-fetched.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Mcgrath, Bob___PI_Mkt [mailto:bob.mcgrath@xxxxxxxxxx]
> >>Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 8:40 AM
> >>To: 'LPBC Chairman'; AlKolwicz@xxxxxxxxx; Citizens for Verifiable
Voting;
> >>Mcgrath, Bob___PI_Mkt; Carol Mehesy; Donna Plutschuck; Monty Lambie;
Pete
> >>Klammer; Peter Raich; Tracy Abell
> >>Cc: Tom Halicki; Nancy Jo Wurl; board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> >>chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: RE: What is Boulder County trying to hide?
> >>
> >>You are making grave charges and tampering with a man's reputation here.
If
> >>you have something to say, say it.  The Boulder Camera didn't seem to
think
> >>his attempts to submit facsimiles of possible ballots was so
far-fetched.
> >>
> >>Bob McGrath, Director
> >>Coloradoans for Voting Integrity
> >>2801 Youngfield Street, #300
> >>Golden, CO 80401
> >>Tel. 303.231.1031
> >>http://www.cfvi.org <http://www.cfvi.org/>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: LPBC Chairman [mailto:chairman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:27 PM
> >>To: AlKolwicz@xxxxxxxxx; Citizens for Verifiable Voting; Bob Mcgrath;
Carol
> >>Mehesy; Donna Plutschuck; Monty Lambie; Pete Klammer; Peter Raich; Tracy
> >>Abell
> >>Cc: Tom Halicki; Nancy Jo Wurl; board@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> >>chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; chair@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: Re: What is Boulder County trying to hide?
> >>I have officially forwarded this to certain interested and involved
> >>individuals and organizations who were not included in the original
public
> >>posting.
> >>
> >>Mr. Kolwicz has told an interestingly spun tale.
> >>There are many inaccuracies and partial truths, and a couple of outright
> >>lies.
> >>A fair amount of false information, too.....but I believe that Mr.
Kolwicz
> >>is blissfully unaware of this and has an excuse......
> >>
> >>However, I suggest any one who wants to know the truth (or, at least
listen
> >>to what all parties concerned have to say), contact the County Chairs of
> >>each Political Party, the Election Clerks involved and the Sheriff's
Office.
> >>Ask for information.....
> >>
> >>We can't *all* be trying to cover up, can we?
> >>Well, maybe AL thinks so.........;-)
> >>Maybe it's all those fumes from the Black Helicopters.....'-)
> >>Also makes him think he can make demands on the Libertarian
Party......<LOL>
> >>
> >>Bo Shaffer
> >>LPBC Chair
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
>
>