RE: Did Linda Salas Lie to Boulder County?

["Delta" <delta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

so, why isn't it CAEV?

If what you say is true, then I contend the original goal of the group has
been co-opted by a group of luddites with their own agenda.

The group *I* joined with, was concerned that the elections be verifiable
and accurate.
We agreed that a paper trail was necessary.....thus the VVPAT
Certain procedures and techniques are necessary to provide accurate election
results....
THESE are the things I have always though were the goals of CVV.

Maybe it is time to truly go our separate ways.....
You can mark this down in your little book of archives....

I am unsubscribing to this list.
It's as close as one can come to quitting the group.
I fully intend to continue *my* work towards having elections be accurate
and verifiable....but I am tired of being associated with such extremists.
Although even extremists can be pleasant at times (thanks for the notes
Al.....)I am tired of infighting.

Enjoy your list sans moi.

Bo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Pezzillo [mailto:jpezzillo@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:04 PM
> To: Delta; Linda Salas
> Cc: Joshua B. Liss; CVV Voting; Shelley Bailey; Boulder County
> Commissioners
> Subject: Re: Did Linda Salas Lie to Boulder County?
>
>
>
> The fundamental problem with this situation is this:
>
> During 2003, Citizens for Verifiable Voting ("CVV") was formed as an
> ad hoc group of local citizens who were opposed to electronic voting.
> As an ad hoc group, membership theoretically was (and remains) open
> to any Boulder County citizen. Thus, yes, you're a member, even if
> you quit the group at least once before.
>
> Since you're a member, you presumably recall that CVV met perhaps
> half a dozen times, the largest meeting had approximately 50
> attendees, you may have been at that meeting, I do not recall, and if
> you'd like, I can dig out the attendance sign up sheets.
>
> During those meetings, every attendee was encouraged to discuss their
> concerns and suggestions about elections.
>
> The group heard, discussed and tolerated a wide variety of opinions
> and perspectives, ranging from "DREs might be okay under these
> limited circumstances" to "hand count all ballots".
>
> After months of in-person meetings and e-mail discussion, CVV was
> able to arrive at a CONSENSUS position and adopted the following four
> points which we presented to the Boulder County Commissioners on
> December 4th, 2003.
>
> 1) Insist on the use of paper ballots as the single, official record
> of the vote;
> 2) Allow no secret software in any voting machines or vote counting
> machines;
> 3) Recognize that accuracy is the most important aspect in the
> elections, not speed of completing the counts; and
> 4) Support HR 2239, and other election reform laws at the local,
> state, and national level that encompass and resolve all of the above
> concerns.
>
>
> You may find this position statement on the web at:
>
> http://coloradovoter.net/moin.cgi/PositionStatement
>
> The Boulder County Clerk represented to the Commissioners and general
> public that CVV was "included," "invited" and/or otherwise given the
> opportunity to participate as a full member of the RFPET: CVV was
> listed in the enumerated lists of participating organizations; CVV is
> listed as a represented organization on the committee's roster; the
> Clerk made clear statements to suggest that CVV and it's membership
> and positions were represented.
>
> That is the lie.
>
> Even if you are a member of CVV, you were not asked to participate
> because of your membership, and the fact of your membership was added
> retroactively in a move specifically intended to mislead. If CVV had
> been invited to participate, it should have the same "paper trail" as
> any other member, including a non-disclosure agreement and a binder
> of RFP response materials.
>
> If I'm wrong, then the Clerk can show us the invitation that CVV was
> extended to participate, where CVV accepted or rejected that
> invitation, and where CVV's consensus position (or the RFPET's
> rejection of CVV's position) is represented in the final report.
>
> If not, the Clerk should immediately retract her statements because
> no such representation was extended to CVV.
>
> You can attack me, but the truth is the truth, and it's not on Linda
> Salas' side. Have you read her campaign literature? Wow, talk about
> fiction. Funny she doesn't mention any of the campaign promises she
> made in 2002, I wonder why...
>
> I'm sure you'll have equally insufficient explanations for every
> other false statement she has made, and you know I've got a list...
>
> Joe
>
> PS - We're still awaiting a copy of that invitation and/or a
> retraction on the CVV list!
>
> Joe Pezzillo
> PO Box J
> Boulder, CO 80306 USA
> jpezzillo@xxxxxxxxx
> 303-938-8850
>
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Delta wrote:
>
> > so, just how "pure" do you have to be to be considered a "member"???
> > show me your membership list.....
> >
> > I was there at the beginning and I am still there.
> > sounds like a member to me.
> >
> > i do not apologize for the Clerk....I *try* to apologize for you
> > being a
> > jerk.
> >
> > I'm sick and tired of all you little weenies yelling and
> > complaining because
> > nobody does what *you* want.....
> > Your way or the highway???
> >
> > Nutz.
> >
> > I am a member of CVV and have been since the beginning....even if I
> > try to
> > distance myself from the more fanatical members.....Doesn't matter
> > WHAT kind
> > of spin *you* try to put on it.
> > I was instrumental in getting CVV to be heard by the Team.
> > CVV voiced concerns and they were listened to.....just not all *your*
> > desires were met....GET OVER IT.
> >
> > You make yourself (and others by association), look petty and
> > ridiculous,
> > calling for a written invitation.....
> > Keep it up and NOBODY will invite CVV ANYwhere.....
> >
> > Bo
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joe Pezzillo [mailto:jpezzillo@xxxxxxxxx]
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:50 PM
> >> To: delta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc: Linda Salas; Joshua B. Liss; CVV Voting; Shelley Bailey; Boulder
> >> County Commissioners
> >> Subject: Re: Did Linda Salas Lie to Boulder County?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bo-
> >>
> >> Just show us the invitation and stop acting like you're "father knows
> >> best".
> >>
> >> Linda misrepresented CVV's participation in the RFPET and you know
> >> it...why are you always the first to apologize for her anyway?
> >>
> >> Membership on the open public e-mail list is hardly membership in the
> >> group, especially when your membership on the list consists primarily
> >> of attacks on other members or trying to bait other participants into
> >> flame wars with you. Besides, in your own words, you withdrew from
> >> CVV on or before 4/26/2004.
> >>
> >> "This is why *I* for one have backed off this CVV group"
> >>
> >> http://coloradovoter.net/bcv-archive/msg01041.html
> >>
> >> Which makes you even claiming to be a member somewhat deceptive in
> >> and of itself, but despite your repeated attempts to start arguments,
> >> you're still always welcome here, even if, as you've noted, you're
> >> always in the minority opinion, and CVV never seems to agree with you
> >> (as your e-mails regularly point out).
> >>
> >> Funny, given all that, tell me again how CVV chose you to represent
> >> it on the RFPET? Can I see that invitation for CVV to participate?
> >> The one like all the other named participants got (LWV, ACLU, Ds, Rs,
> >> Ls...)?
> >>
> >> Who signed the non-disclosure agreement on behalf of CVV?
> >>
> >> And this is what passes for "integrity" at the clerk's office, and
> >> you defend it? And you trust people who would act like that to count
> >> your votes?
> >>
> >> "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little
> >> children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3
> >> (NIV)
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 6, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Delta wrote:
> >>
> >>> For Cat's sake, Joe....stop acting like a petulant child.
> >>> CVV was specifically invited on the second and third RFPET meetings
> >>> to give
> >>> public testimony, because a representative was there and asked.
> >>> It's in the minutes....
> >>> CVV *gave* testimony.....that's in the minutes, too.
> >>>
> >>> And as far as *my* membership in CVV goes (which Mr. Shnelvar didn't
> >>> question, but did complain that I wasn't mainstream CVV) I was
> >>> there when
> >>> the group started....I have as much right as anyone to claim to be
> >>> a part of
> >>> it. I have different ideas than some of you....so do some others.
> >>> That
> >>> doesn't mean that any of us could not be a representative of the
> >>> group...informal as that membership/representation is.
> >>>
> >>> Everyone who wanted to, said their piece....during the RFPET
> >>> hearings.
> >>> It's not very democratic of you to denounce the entire process
> >>> because
> >>> everybody didn't listen to your version and do everything *you*
> >>> wanted.
> >>> Your voice was heard and then the Team moved on.
> >>> Feel free to continue to push your particular agenda, but realize
> >>> how you
> >>> belittle it by being petty.
> >>>
> >>> Bo
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Joe Pezzillo [mailto:jpezzillo@xxxxxxxxx]
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:54 PM
> >>>> To: Linda Salas; Joshua B. Liss; CVV Voting
> >>>> Cc: Shelley Bailey; Boulder County Commissioners
> >>>> Subject: Did Linda Salas Lie to Boulder County?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 4/6/2006
> >>>>
> >>>> Boulder County Clerk Linda Salas:
> >>>>
> >>>> Today, in testimony before the Boulder County Commissioners, you
> >>>> stated that Citizens for Verifiable Voting had been invited to
> >>>> participate in your latest RFP evaluation committee.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please immediately produce the invitation you sent to CVV to
> >>>> participate or publicly retract your statements.
> >>>>
> >>>> A Boulder County attorney and the Commissioners have been CC'd on
> >>>> this e-mail.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you do not produce the invitation you claimed you extended to
> >>>> CVV
> >>>> or retract your statements, the next step will be to present this
> >>>> information to the press.
> >>>>
> >>>> You have made false statements before the Boulder County
> >>>> Commissioners before (1/29/2004), I can compile a complete list if
> >>>> necessary.
> >>>>
> >>>> You may make your written statement of retraction to the CVV
> >>>> mailing
> >>>> list, a statement from your staff will not be sufficient.
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Pezzillo
> >>>> PO Box J
> >>>> Boulder, CO 80306
> >>>> 303-938-8850
> >>>> jpezzillo@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>