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Re: [Fwd: Re: Boulder County Commissioners: 12/4 10:30am]
Dear Emm Ell:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:42:48 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>> What is with this guy and banging pots and pans??!!
>> I do not think this will get this cause anywhere! If
>> someone wants to grandstand, I wish you would think
>> carefully, and maybe do it later, for some other
>> cause. Udall's a good man, done nothing 'wrong'
>> towards this issue, and I think it only fair to at
>> least seek a meeting with him, or his staff, before
>> ticking him off.
Let's see, he was approached. He refused to back HR2239.
Then noise was made and he became a co-sponsor. I guess it could be
coincidence.
To make change you make noise if other tactics don't work. Otherwise you
lose because, by definition, the other tactics did not work.
I'm all for approaching people nicely but there is a terrible lack of time
available.
Grandstanding is useful. It gets attention. Getting attention is what gets
people to pay attention.
So when should we grandstand? When the machines are in and you now have
absolutely no ability to affect things? You are a member of this group, I
suppose, because you perceive the gravity of the situation. You understand
that DRE machines are a fundamental threat to democracy.
When do you get upset? When you find out that 98% of the voters in Boulder
voted for the Republican Congressman and you don't have the ability to audit
the printed ballots because it is
a) Against the law
b) There are no printed ballots
?
Sorry, it is time to bang pots.
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>-------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Boulder County
>> Commissioners: 12/4 10:30am Date:
>> Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:15:50 -0700 From:
>> Ralph Shnelvar Reply-To:
>> ralphs@xxxxxxxxx To:
>> bcv@xxxxxxxxxxx References:
>> Dear Paul:Private to you.I asked a simple
>> question: What under state law prevents the use of
>> handcounting?Instead you go through a
>> diatribe.Worse, this diatribe does nothing to get 40
>> volunteers to bang pots atUdall's office.So, again,
>> please answer a simple question assuming that you
>> have theanswer.RalphOn Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:12:09
>> -0700, you wrote:>do you read these emails? it is
>> unlawful. it is state law, not a county >ordinance.
>> the commissioners can't change state law, and they
>> sure as >hell are not just going to violate it
>> because you think it is a good idea.>>Ralph, why not
>> use your energy and that off all these other people
>> to >serve the issues at hand. we have a short time
>> window. Once past the end >of the year, or past
>> whatever decision the commissioners make, then you
>> >can go after all the other issues that make sense.
>> Hand counting included.>>What I perceive that you
>> are doing now, is diluting the effort. If we >don't
>> make a immediate effect on the commissioner's
>> decision in the next >25 days, then we will have
>> lost completely.>>YOU CANNOT ASK THE COMMISSIONERS
>> TO BREAK THE LAW. THEY WON'T DO IT. >THEY WON'T TAKE
>> OUR COUNSEL IF THAT IS WHAT WE ASK THEM TO DO.>>I
>> KNOW THAT YOU DON'T THINK THAT IT IS AGAINST THE
>> LAW, BUT THAT DOESN'T >MEAN THAT IT ISN'T. YOUR
>> OPINION DOES NOT CHANGE REALITY.>>Please -- people,
>> we have such a limited time left. Let's concentrate
>> on >the doable in the realm of reality.>>paul tiger
>> -- Legislative Director of the Libertarian Party of
>> Colorado>>>>Ralph Shnelvar wrote:>>>Dear Paul:>>>>On
>> Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:48:38 -0700, you wrote:>>>>
>> >>>>>Those that want to make a case for hand
>> counting, and there seem to be a>>>few, need to
>> address the state (SoS) and the legislature. This is
>> not>>>something that the commissioners can decide
>> upon.>>> >>>>>>>Why is that?>>>>Ralph>>>>
>> >>>>>Paul Tiger>>>>>>-----Original
>> Message----->>>From: Evan Daniel Ravitz
>> [mailto:evan@xxxxxxxx]>>>Sent: Friday, November 21,
>> 2003 2:49 PM>>>To:
>> joe pezzillo>>>Cc: bcv>>>Subject: Re: Boulder
>> County Commissioners: 12/4 10:30am>>>>>>>>>Joe, I'd
>> like to make the case for hand-counting as a
>> temporary>>>measure (politicians like to put off the
>> hard decisions, and this is>>>one case where it
>> makes sense).>>>>>>Evan>>>>>>On Fri, 21 Nov 2003,
>> joe pezzillo wrote:>>>>>> >>>>>>>CVV is scheduled
>> on the agenda of the business meeting of the
>> Boulder>>>>County Commissioners on December 4th,
>> 2003 at 10:30am.>>>>>>>>We will have 10 minutes,
>> including any questions from the
>> commissioners>>>>(who may also choose to invite us
>> back).>>>>>>>>This is a public meeting, so please
>> see if you can attend, and perhaps>>>>even bring a
>> friend.>>>>>>>>I presume our presentation will be
>> prepared by our County Commissioners>>>>sub group,
>> please contact me ASAP if you would like to
>> participate.>>>>>>>>In the meantime, we should also
>> work on as much citizen outreach as>>>>possible so
>> that they have heard from many people before we
>> arrive (and>>>>hopefully
>> we'll have a lot of signatures on our petitions,
>> too!)>>>>>>>>Joe>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>
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