[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: ERC Report Draft Insults Election Reform Activists




Sorry, that's not entirely true. The Swiss always hand count, and in some (perhaps most, although I don't know the exact numbers) ALSO use the currency counters. I'll follow up with Beat off-list to make sure this is true, but that's my understanding from reading their report.


Also, I do try to mention the currency counters every time, it's one of the reasons for the ballots to be that size. And even with the currency counters, remember that every ballot is hand resolved, that is the actual counting ("sorting") is done by a human, not a machine. The currency counters verify that the humans have counted correctly. The method that I usually don't mention is the very rare (and possibly no longer used) "voting by raising your sword in the public square" method, however, which you might like even more.

Also, Evan frequently mentioned that hand counting was used in Canada and various European countries, I think he mentioned the UK and Germany. What we didn't have at the time (and in fact the reason I was skeptical of it then) was a tangible demonstration of how it is done.

In many ways, to see it is to believe it. A remarkable concept in transparent elections, huh?

Joe


On Jun 15, 2005, at 12:03 PM, Paul Tiger - LPBC - Outreach wrote:


And then we were introduced to the Swiss method - which I like.

The best thing about the SVM in my view is the electromechanical counters.
What could be more accurate than a currency counter? How easy to test?
It doesn't involve humans counting hundreds of thousands of slips of paper.
I don't think that humans can do that accurately and studies show that I am
right.


Colored paper; large notches to identify ballot styles; easily readable
markings; hi-speed currency counters. It works for me.
I think that it is to our detriment not to mention the counters. Joe never
says this when selling the SVM, so listeners assume hand counts, which could
be done, but isn't done by the Swiss. If this is to sell then we have to
sell it as is, not modify it and then call it the SVM.


As for the legality issue: I think that if you look at these threads you'll
find me dancing around with Evan and Neal concerning counting paper ballots
in parallel with the in-use approved method. That would be an audit, not a
hand count. At the time it was unlawful to perform an audit. The SoS gave
the city a waiver to perform an audit in a municipal election. She could
have given BoCo a waiver for November, but no one asked.


At the time hand counts were lawful and audits were not. Things have
changed.

paul