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Re: Fwd: Citizens in the Dark
Margit and all:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:54:08 -0600, you wrote:
> Inaccurate lists aren't quite the same as individual voters doing
>illegal things. According to investigators like Greg Palast, crooks are
>creating inaccurate lists to throw legitimate voters off the rolls.
So is this other flavor of fraud "rampant" or not?
Part of knowing what level of voter fraud there is is to establish an
accurate baseline.
Plus, I note the illogic of someone saying "EAC's report shows that there is
no evidence that significant numbers of voters are lying about their
identity at the polls, voting twice, or voting in the name of dead people.
Let me repeat that: NO EVIDENCE."
Here's the same logic: Bill Clinton has never denied that he is a Martian.
NEVER!
I must admit that I have not read the EAC report (Because it has not been
released?). Nonetheless, my question becomes "What percentage of vote fraud
would be significant to the EAC?". Aren't these the same people who
"certify" voting machines?
Let's look at a similar piece of illogic: When cashing a check there is no
reason to ask people for identification since only one to two percent of all
checks cashed are NSF (insufficient funds).
As we have argued long and hard: At least with ATMs and bad checks, someone
_knows_. With votes, it is all speculation as to whether the votes reflect
the actual will of the voters ... especially in close races.
>The
>question is, are unsupported allegations of widespread individual voter
>misbehavior are being used to justify making it harder for certain groups to
>vote?.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that the group that seems hardest hit are people
who have recently moved from out-of-state.
> Why doesn't the politically-appointed EAC want to release the report?
Perhaps because the Republicans don't want to deal with the kind of
allegations made in this eMail?
I happen to know for a fact that Foley committed vote fraud when he was
getting a nude massage from that priest.
>(And while we are on the subject of focusing on individuals voters rather
>than larger-scale fraud, why, in Colorado law, are some penalties for
>individual voter misbehavior more severe than for election officials
>tampering with election results, affecting many votes?!)
Because the political class is a privileged class. Instead of holding our
politicians and "civil servants" to a higher standard than the public, they,
instead, grant themselves (partial) immunity from prosecution.
It's a wonderful world.
I hope you all will be voting for Amendment 38 so that the citizenry can
finally fix problems that the political class won't touch.
>Margit
Ralph Shnelvar
>
>
>On 10/19/06, Ralph Shnelvar <ralphs@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I am terribly sorry but I have first hand experience with vote fraud.
>>
>> As you all know by now, I'm a Libertarian so I don't particularly care
>> which
>> of the two major parties gets into power. They both are equaling
>> appalling
>> to me.
>>
>> Several years ago I was walking a district for a friend in Colorado
>> Springs.
>> I was working off of an official voter registration list.
>>
>> Here's the fact: a good 5% of the addresses on the voter registration list
>> for three precincts did not exist. I couldn't deliver my packet of
>> information because there was no house at the address listed.
>>
>> Form your own conclusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are all interested in the legitimacy of the vote. When our county
>> officials and our voting machine vendors ask for our trust, we all sniff.
>>
>> Why is it that there are people asking us to believe random individuals
>> who
>> show up at the polls that they are entitled to vote?
>>
>> As some wit has noted, we ask for more identification from people who want
>> to cash a $5 check than we do of those who want to vote.
>>
>> Ralph Shnelvar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:49:10 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >From: PFAW Activist Network <alerts@xxxxxxxx>
>> >Date: Oct 19, 2006 8:40 AM
>> >Subject: Citizens in the Dark
>> >To: Margit Johansson <margitjo@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> > [image: transparent] [image: transparent] *Forward this
>> >e-mail<http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208139513989333536584265> |
>> >Subscribe to PFAW Action
>> >Alerts<http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208170313989333536584265>
>> >* *PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY October 18, 2006* [image:
>> >PFAW_banner]<http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208170413989333536584265>
>> >[image:
>> >PFAW_red_underline]
>> ><
>> http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=page&name=gp&ver=sh3fib53pgpk#10e61067efdc4996_
>> >
>> ><http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=16852> [image:
>> >transparent]
>> >
>> >According to *USA Today*, a new report shows there is no evidence that
>> >significant numbers of voters are lying about their identity at the
>> polls,
>> >voting twice or voting in the name of dead people. Yet across the
>> country,
>> >burdensome voter ID bills and other legislation that disenfranchises
>> >eligible voters are being justified by this made-up epidemic. We deserve
>> to
>> >know which threats are real and which threats are imaginary.
>> >
>> >*Please petition the Elections Assistance Commission to release its
>> report
>> >on voter fraud!
>> >*
>> >*http://www.ReleaseTheReport.com*<
>> http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208151813989333536584265>
>> >
>> >*Dear* *Margit**,
>> >
>> >*
>> >
>> >You've heard the expression, "the cure is worse than the disease." Well
>> >that's especially true when you don't even have the disease in question!
>> >
>> >Right-wing members of Congress and state legislators have been passing
>> >onerous laws that make it harder for citizens to vote. Despite erecting
>> >barriers to the ballot box and disenfranchising voters, they've claimed
>> >these laws are necessary to stop rampant voter fraud.
>> >
>> >Thanks to a press leak, it is now public that the US Elections Assistance
>> >Commission (EAC) commissioned a report to find out about voter fraud.
>> >According to *USA
>> >Today*<http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208154313989333536584265>,
>> >the EAC's report shows that there is no evidence that significant numbers
>> of
>> >voters are lying about their identity at the polls, voting twice, or
>> voting
>> >in the name of dead people. Let me repeat that: NO EVIDENCE.
>> >
>> >While this has long been suspected by those of us who have fought
>> >discriminatory attempts to address "voter fraud" (e.g. voter ID bills
>> that
>> >would, in effect, create a poll tax for poor, elderly and minority
>> citizens
>> >who don't have or need government issued ID in their regular lives), the
>> EAC
>> >report makes it official: voter fraud does not present a health risk to
>> our
>> >democracy. That is, it *would* be official if the EAC had released it. ?
>> But
>> >it won't release it.
>> >
>> >*Please petition the EAC to release the report at
>> >http://www.ReleaseTheReport.com<
>> http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208152613989333536584265>
>> >**!*
>> >
>> >Across the country, states have been introducing legislation requiring
>> >voters to show identification before voting, preventing eligible voters
>> from
>> >casting ballots. Indeed, the US Congress has tried to pass national Voter
>> ID
>> >legislation four times in the last four months ? all in the name of
>> stopping
>> >the one electoral cancer from which we don't appear to be suffering.
>> Worse,
>> >the mostly Republican legislators who are pushing such "prescriptions"
>> are
>> >more like doctors who are getting kickbacks for prescribing cancer drugs
>> to
>> >healthy people, insofar as they are keeping away from the polls voters
>> who
>> >tend to cast ballots for the other party.
>> >
>> >*Sign the petition<
>> http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208154413989333536584265>to
>> >the EAC urging that this report be released and that hearings be held
>> >on
>> >its findings. We deserve to know which threats are real and which threats
>> >are imaginary.*
>> >
>> >*http://www.ReleaseTheReport.com<
>> http://www.kintera.org/TR.asp?ID=M7208153213989333536584265>
>> >*
>> >
>> >*-- Your Allies at People For the American Way*
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> >This message was sent to: margitjo@xxxxxxxxx
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>>
>>