Re: recounts in Colorado (under present law) -- The definition of insanity

[Ralph Shnelvar <ralphs@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Bo:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:55:20 -0700, you wrote:

>So you think it's OK to re-install an antiquated and illegal system
>*temporarily*.....?

I grant you that the current system is antiquated.

But illegal?  What makes the _current_ "fill in the dot" system illegal
before 2006?

We can use the same system we used for the 2003 mail-in election at the
polling places.

>For what, a week....a month....a few years?

One year should be plenty of time to straighten out this mess.

>It's OK to have a flawed system, as long as it's temporary......
>(Isn't that what we have *now*???)

What we have now is a system that can, conceivably, have a manual recount.
In fact, in order to comply with state law we would pretty much have to do a
manual count if we wanted a manual recount.

>
>and *I* look stupid???

Who said you look stupid?

>
>Sigh.....
>Maybe you should listen to your *own* advice just a wee bit......;-)
>
>Bo

Ralph

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Evan Daniel Ravitz" <evan@xxxxxxxx>
>To: "LPBC Chairman" <chairman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: "Paul Tiger" <Paul.Tiger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "BCV" <bcv@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>"William Crook" <slayer@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:12 AM
>Subject: Re: recounts in Colorado (under present law) -- The definition of
>insanity
>
>
>>
>> Bo, if you'd actually read what I've said at least twice in this
>> forum, I favor hand-counting as a temporary measure until a computer
>> system can be made to satisfy techies and voters. ALL the software
>> which has counted votes since the '70s IS secret.
>>
>> I'm not a luddite. I started programming computers in 1968 and did it
>> professionally until 1983. Calling people names who you don't know and
>> don't even read just makes you look stupid.
>>
>> Evan
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Evan Ravitz     303 440 6838     evan@xxxxxxxx
>> Vote for the National Initiative! www.vote.org
>> Photo Adventures:          www.vote.org/photos
>>
>> Kucinich: the ONLY candidate to vote against the
>> "Patriot" Act and the Iraq war:  www.kucinich.us
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, LPBC Chairman wrote:
>>
>> > Evan,
>> > Errors are errors.
>> > Secret ones and conspiracies and all are a bit paranoid.
>> > Stop being a Luddite.
>> > Technology can give us the ability to be error free as well as fraud
>proof..
>> > We have to mold it to our purposes, not let it take over our process.
>> > This *is* possible.
>> > Just because something has been done for a long time is not a good
>reason to
>> > continue it. In fact, it's probably a good reason to *not* continue it.
>This
>> > is a dynamic world we live in and everything has to adapt. To not change
>is
>> > to stagnate and die.
>> >
>> > Bo
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Evan Daniel Ravitz" <evan@xxxxxxxx>
>> > To: "LPBC Chairman" <chairman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Cc: "Paul Tiger" <Paul.Tiger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "BCV" <bcv@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> > "William Crook" <slayer@xxxxxxxxx>
>> > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:25 AM
>> > Subject: Re: recounts in Colorado (under present law) -- The definition
>of
>> > insanity
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Bo, Canada (20-something million people) and Britain both hand-count
>> > > ballots. It's been done for hundreds of years. The journey of 1000
>> > > miles begins with a single step, counting a million starts with one.
>> > > It's "scalable". I'm sure it's more error prone than computer
>> > > counting, but with the proper measures, those are honest errors
>> > > instead of secret ones which can never be discovered now.
>> > >
>> > > Evan
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, LPBC Chairman wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Evan....
>> > > >
>> > > > Hand counting???
>> > > > a hundred thousand ballots???
>> > > > (in Boulder County alone....)
>> > > > And you think *that* would be more accurate???
>> > > > Maybe someday you should volunteer at the Clerks office and see what
>it
>> > > > takes to just open and sort ballots by hand......let alone count
>them.
>> > You
>> > > > would be amazed at the errors people make.
>> > > >
>> > > > We need to come up with a way to make technology work.
>> > > >
>> > > > Bo
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Paul Tiger" <tigerp@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > To: "Evan Daniel Ravitz" <evan@xxxxxxxx>; <paul.tiger@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > Cc: "BCV" <bcv@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "William Crook" <slayer@xxxxxxxxx>; "Bo
>> > > > Shaffer" <bo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:46 PM
>> > > > Subject: RE: recounts in Colorado (under present law) -- The
>definition
>> > of
>> > > > insanity
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > No, Ben Franklin actually. Go do your homework.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Evan Daniel Ravitz [mailto:evan@xxxxxxxx]
>> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:18 PM
>> > > > > To: paul.tiger@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > > Cc: BCV; William Crook; Bo Shaffer
>> > > > > Subject: Re: recounts in Colorado (under present law) -- The
>> > definition of
>> > > > > insanity
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003, Paul Tiger wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and
>over
>> > and
>> > > > > > expecting different results." -- Benjamin Franklin
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Einstein, actually. State law mandates recounts by the same method
>as
>> > > > > the original count. That's why I support hand-counting until the
>State
>> > > > > law is changed; public-source software isn't as good as
>hand-counting,
>> > > > > but much better than secret software used over and over.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Evan
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----------------------------------------------
>> > > > > Evan Ravitz     303 440 6838     evan@xxxxxxxx
>> > > > > Vote for the National Initiative! www.vote.org
>> > > > > Photo Adventures:          www.vote.org/photos
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Kucinich: the ONLY candidate to vote against the
>> > > > > "Patriot" Act and the Iraq war:  www.kucinich.us
>> > > > > ------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>